my 23 yr old son asked me why i did'nt join a corp and i play alone , i made him read every post in this thread . he thinks most of you are freaking idiots and now he understands why i play this game alone. i'm nearly 50 and some of you are the worst gamers i've ever come across in 30 years of gaming , if it wasn't for the fact nearly everyone has mutipile accounts i doubt this game would have lasted this long .

my 2 cents worth

Strip Search Phone Call Scam

The guy called into a McDonald's posing as a police officer, he never once made contact with the other individuals involved. He was injustly incarcerated of his crimes! The people involved at this McDonald's location should have known better! They all consented multiple times to what Mr. Stewart was telling them to do over the phone! Any of the individuals involved could have easily left or hung up the phone but they chose to stay/continue to particpate. /S

Whether you want to believe it or not, psychological abuse alone is still a very serious issue.

In 21st century many of the 90s and early 2000s generations forget that virtual scamming, bashing or whatever is real(life) scamming, bashing etc. because you are dealing with REAL human beings!!

I'd puke in Erotica's face if I'd meet him in rl (hope I never will), however, EVE Online gives him the platform for his pathetic intentions.

Scamming is one thing, but that is pathetic.

I see this as using a game as the means to an end. Not playing a game and taking advantage of the mechanics.

Pulling people outside of the game for their twisted amusement is the modus operandi of pedophiles and psychopaths.

CCP could wash their hands of this legally, but once something bad happens out-of-game things will get really bad for them really fast. The press is not your friend, CCP. Nip this in the bud.

Mittanigate was a worldwide sensation (in the gaming press) and what he did was nothing compared to what Erotica1 has going on. You are in for a world of hurt if you don't get a handle on this.

Mr Epeen

words

It would be nice if CCP could state whether it is acceptable to them for someone to abuse or bully another player ingame because the other player has a speech impediment. Then we can go back to playing EVE.

Erotica1 is, with malice, willful forethought and intent, extorting/blackmailing victims OUTSIDE OF THE GAME by holding their INGAME items ransom

I've seen your killboard. Maybe you should just play on a laptop at the local station.

False. Teamspeak.

And if it is happening in EveVoice, then it is all the more reason for CCP to immediately take action in order to avoid possible legal repercussions to itself, and to protect its clients feom this kind of illegal activity by persons utilising their service for those purposes.

It is not happening inside EVE. It is happening outside it.

For all intents and purposes this is no different than extorting/blackmailing a person over a telephone or even by letters.
The medium is irrelevant to the crime. The external context and holding a persons assets ransom for purposes of OUT OF GAME extortion/blackmail is illegal.

There is such a thing as psychological extortion. Furthermore a person has time and effort invested in those items so who are you to say the items have no value?

I'm afraid you are.

What you meant? Maybe not. But it's the logical consequence of what you said

see what I did there?


You're the kind of guy who'd argue for a rapist to go free on a technicality then. Right? Because observation of arbitrary rules should trump justice?

Let's really get the heat off Erotica1. Let's talk about the CSM who defends harassment, mental abuse and torture because it's "not against the rules".


Great representative of the community. If my constituents hurt, it's ok as long as it doesn't happen to me.

Well played friend.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbole

Just giving Malcanis a taste of his own medicine.

You dont seem to understand how courts work.

Aany threats Sohkar made can be tried in separate cases. Thats fine and Erotica1s prerogative to pursue.
They do not however absolve Erotica1 of his own conduct or legal culpability.

Second of all, and as would invariably be the case for the defence if those charges where brought against Sohkar, is that he was under duress caused by Erotica1 in the first place, at the time that he made them. This is substantiated further by even his wife entreating the perpetrators to desist.

You are underestimating the severity of this situation.
This is some very serious **** that goes well beyond forum trolling.

Sometimes when i walk by a homeless person near the mall and notice they are pretty weak I just start kicking them in the chins and take their quarters. Then I laugh at them when they tear up realizing that they will have to starve the next few days.

Yeah, preying on the weak and defenseless makes me a pretty hilarious dude!

It IS true from the following bolded sub-section:
(b) Insults, taunts or challenges another in a manner likely to provoke violent or disorderly response; or

The perpetrators (Erotica1 and company) repeatedly challenge the victim to perform demeaning acts, in the form of demands to which the victim is likely to respond in a violent or disorderly fashion rather than acquiescing to the blackmail/extortion implicit in expressing those challenges in the first place.

First we have Mittani encouraging people to get some miner to commit suicide on a microphone at fanfest.

Then we have sadistic perverts abusing others over computers.


Why is this **** tolerated???

my opinion on this is the simple

1 - The Victim is at fault for falling for the scam .Scamming should stay legal and a legit method in game.

2 - The scammer went to far , out of some narcissistic need , and should be punished not for the legit scam. But for taking it too far with the 2 hours of humiliation that came afterwards.

3 - CCP need to implement a guideline policy for these situations .SCAMMING SHOULD STAY LEGAL , but PROLONGED TEAR EXTRACTION , should BE ADVISED AGAINST. It should be understood if you take it TOO FAR (as in this case) THERE WILL BE CONSEQUENCES

I hope that CCP comes down hard on this. If not outright banning perpetrators then at least modifying EULA in a way so this would be considered a major offence in the future.

I've got 2 problems with the whole bonus room concept:
1. It uses EvE ecosystem as a honeypot. It filters out the weak and susceptible so that they could be coer... persuaded to join out of game voice comms.
2. They use TS, an out of game, unsupervised and unpoliced solution, to abuse victims for hours and hours. If you recollect two weeks ago CCP contacted a law enforcement to possibly prevent a suicide. Why? Because a player had announced in local chat that he'd blow his brains out. It was all it took for CCP to intervene.
Now with this TS "bonus room" we've got an unsupervised system that consist of a victim and X number of perpetrators who's main goal is to make emotional abuse last as long as possible. And they will do what is necessary to debase the victim psychologically so that he/she would break for the lulz.
Do you believe that "bonus room" perpetrators would contact CCP or law enforcement if a victim would threaten self-harm, like really?

You can scam all you want in EvE sandbox, but the moment you use EvE as a tool for out of game coercion your rights for "emergent gameplay" should end.

That is irrelevant now. This whole situation will get eaten up by media channels and they will farm CCP tears and feast upon them. Eve hasn't exactly got the greatest rep in the gaming media circles and shitstorms like this are what shitposting journo's love. They will selectively publish the bits that support their "EVE is full of sociopaths" and push it out into the public domain. Then we all get reamed if CCP are then forced into a position where they have to make a public statement and effect change to game mechanics.

As a community we should probably do a better job of self policing so this kind of media tear harvesting doesn't happen and ensure we clean our own house up rather than it being a forced issue. Surely that would be better for us as gamers and the health of EVE ?

Some of you are disgusting human beings, especially those either advocating or condoning physical violence.

The use of loaded words such as torture and a term for sexual molestation, that is filtered by the swear filter, to describe something, that while fairly deplorable, is within the realms of the rules (AFAIK) is inappropriate. To the people doing so I say get some perspective, better yet talk to a victim of torture or sexual assault and tell them that losing your internet spaceship pixels is the equivalent to what they've experienced, I'm sure you'll find them sympathetic

You are indulging in a populist witch hunt, and are being carried by the mass hysteria that comes with such a hunt.

War Kittens forum signature would seem to apply to some of you, it reads thus:

"I find that without a good mob to provide one for them, most people would have no mentality at all."

TL;DR You're acting like a mob intent on vigilante justice. Grow the hell up, you're meant to be adults, stop acting like petulant little shites.


*apologies War Kitten for using your sig in a thread such as this, it is somewhat appropriate though*

edit ~ Ripard Teg should change his name to Matthew Hopkins, he's painted himself as the Witchfinder General.

I have heard of them. I have not heard of any EVE player being a government or having that right.

And no, consent is not confirmed.

1) There is no evidence that the victim is even in the channel at the time it is said.
2) There is no evidence that the victim even hears that being said.
3) There is no expression of consent on the part of the victim to being recorded.
4) There is no implied consent on the part of the victim for being recorded, because it is not specifically stated by the recorder.
5) There is no expression of consent to distribution of the recording.

If you don't confirm the above from every participant in the recording, the recording is infact illegal.
Thats just how it is. That is how arbitrary the law is on matters such as this, and in general.

He consents to recording while being recorded... That makes lots of sense?

OK theoretically i scam you . Take all you isk and assets . Then give you a chance to get them back using the bonus room method . NOW say you have a lot of time and effort put into the game. you are going to comply due to the coercion of holding you entire eve career assets to ransom if you do not . If erotica1 action were legal why did he not use the in-game chat for this . ILL tell why due to the fact that CCP would ban him for going to far. The coercion element of the bonus room aspect of the scam is what negates any consent given to the scammer by the victim . Still the victim should have been wiser and quit after the initial scam. The scammer should have used moderation and quit while he was ahead , instead of being a narcissistic prick

As much as I agree, it would cause the already riled up masses to get more pissy.

Relevance?

If that recording is not going to far, then what is . From your perspective , where is the line between SCAM and outright bullying , humiliation of individuals .

How far should the scammer go after receiving all hist victims assets , to reap personal enjoyment out of his victims stupidity

At what point does something go beyond a scam

WERE DO YOU DRAW THE LINE

Absolutely. Its irrelevant. But its a nice attempt to shift the blame from the people who did do the wrong thing onto the victim. Actually, not its pretty transparent and a bad attempt.

Somebody took his stuff, granted it was just pixels, however that's irrelevant. Whats relevant is a number of people deliberately set out to humiliate and embarrass another person without any regard for them at all. They also made fun of him because he had a speech impediment which is vilification based on disability. There are a lot of things wrong with what they did and your pathetic attempts to try to justify the behavior is, well, pathetic.

Also relevant is if it happened again and a more imbalanced person was deliberately targeted and treated the same way causing that person to harm themselves then CCP would likely be liable in part since they are now fully aware of whats occurring and doing nothing would be pretty stupid from a legal point of view.

CCP has nothing to gain by allowing this behavior to continue and potentially a lot to lose.

Your argument loses its legs though when you examine what kind of other events set precedents for how something like this would potentially be handled.

For example social media sites have a legal responsibility (albiet a loose one) to the safeguarding of its userbases well being. Cases in context are the classic facebook trolls and subsequent actions taken against them.

In much the same way CCP has a similar responsibility. That this happened on TS to avoid the EULA is obvious, however it was done so on the back of leveraging CCP IP and their game. Thus CCP cannot effectively hide while they are getting media mud thrown at their windows.

If this was all done using EVE's in game comm system what do you think would have been the outcome ?

Its OK buddy. We understand.

But do not worry, a properly worded crime tip to the FBI and other agencies does not go unnoticed.

It might take 6-8 months for them, but they will come.

And with words like ' online predators ' ' luring ' 'vulnerable victims ' 'possibly underage ' 'recorded ' 'tortured and abused ' ' published on the internet '

THEY WILL COME.


And you...you just visualize a cage in a zoo with a monkey in it. Puts things in perspective doesnt it.

Wat?

Making someone cry seems pretty RL distressful to me.

Mr Epeen

I wasn't commenting on what happened. I was commenting on the seeming contradiction of what you said that I quoted. If you are trying to get tears, then you are by definition trying to cause distress. Hope that clears things up for you.

Mr Epeen

Its very simple guys.

EVE Online has no place for real-life pedophiles, rapists, online predators, pimps, terrorists, and drug dealers.

E1 and friends fall somewhere along that axis and have to go.

Very simple.

tl;dr: You are all horrible people and i hate you.

Because we aren't discussing EULA matters.

Yes.
But your real life analogy is not accurate.

E1 was not harmed here.
You can say whatever you want, but no harm came of this to Erotica 1.

The one and only harmed person, here, is the gullible man called Sokhar.
He was provoked and humiliated, recorded and made fun of.

Dear Erotica,

Long time no see o/. Since I first joined EVE, you've been in the corner of my eye. You put Erotica1 in a noob HS Aussie corp that took me in and tried to teach me a little about EVE (I believe I was 1-2 months along? tops?). For their trouble, you spied out their POS's, had beancounter (alt) Wardec them, and blew up my Cormorant. But, you also took me aside, explained that my fitting was bad and how to improve it, and kicked me ISK to help me along. This was an important lesson in the harshness I had heard about EVE, but also that - hey! maybe even the "baddies" are still respectful, well-meaning members of the EVE community, right? Right? Well sometimes yes, but...

Well, after that you still had me in private convo, so you bragged about your wallet. You flashed me a gif of the total. I asked how you managed to acquire so much. Then you start flashing me images of conversations you'd trolled out of ISK doubling schemes. Tons and tons of them. You seemed to drag these convo's out forever. I remember one I was reading, thinking at the time "Criminy... he's not preying on this guy's greed; he's getting off on this guy's loneliness and despair".

Since then, I've always kept your activities in the corner of my eye. Kind of the same way a person might keep an eye on the old neighbor that always seems to stare way too long out his bay window at the local children playing in the street. I heard about the mayo incident, the C&P threads you and your alts would troll until they were locked, the 'pod yourself to alpha clone' incident, the murmurs and rumors that you were behind scam websites like EVE-Bazaar.com, and countless other stories like these. I've seen the CODE nonsense you band about. Your CSM 'attempts'. I even saw your hissy fit when CCP restored that one guy's SP. I thought you quit the game at that point... guess that was too much to hope.

After that first encounter, you offered to take me in and teach me the ropes. I politely declined and went on my way. Why didn't I take you up on that offer? Because of those convo's you showed me. There's scamming... and then there's what you do. It's cruel. It's creepy.

Parting an idiot from his ISK? By all means - go nuts people. But that's not what you're doing. Sure, you do scam them, but as a means to an end. It's not about the scam. You want to humiliate them. Poke them. Toy with them. Make them cry.

That's not gameplay, and this behavior sure as hell has no place being 'acceptable' in my sandbox. If I'm not being clear enough, I'm saying that I agree you and your alt accounts need a swift and permanent ban.

If anyone doesn't agree with it, you are welcome to follow him out the airlock.

/ Coffee

Sorry, can you repeat that?

Its not an accurate quote...?

Hmm let me think back to it....

Yes, my memory seems to recall the original quote saying pretty much what that says.

Me sorry :,,,,(